Phil Friedman

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Insipidipity Is Lurking... Or Is It? That Is the Question

Insipidipity Is Lurking... Or Is It? That Is the Question

CAN THE WORDS OF A SPIRITUAL TEACHER PROVIDE GUIDANCE FOR SOCIAL MEDIA ENGAGEMENT? ...


Preface:  This is the 17th installment of this series by Jim Murray and me. When we first started the series on LinkedIn, we intended among other things to show that it was possible to have lively discussion and disagreement, without lasting acrimony. And we the effort as part of our contribution to the well-being of the digital publishing community there. Well, all things change; and we've changed venues to beBee  where we again hope to make a contribution to the development of robust intellectual engagement, and to the mitigation of what I call Insipidipity.

Both Jim and I publish on different days parallel versions of each installment, and I continue to do the same on LinkedIn, for those many followers who remain there. Be warned that our exchanges on He Said He Said are for intellectual adults, and therefore neither Jim, nor I mince words or pussy-foot around delicate topics. However, if you find what you read here worthwhile, let us know. And if you disagree with what one or both of us says, be sure to comment. For whether you agree or disagree, intellectual engagement is our primary objective here.


Insipidipity Is Lurking... Or Is It? That Is the QuestionPHIL: At the beginning of one of Alan Geller’s latest video montages (http://tinyurl.com/HSHS-mooji), there is a clip of an interview with Jamaican-born spiritual teacher Mooji.

Hey, I’m serious. Stop rolling your eyes… I can see you in my mind’s eye!

Mooji — who sounds like a cross between Bob Marley and Mahatma Ghandi —says something that strikes so directly on target in our “He Said He Said” discussions on social media, that I need to quote it verbatim.

“Often you are saying thank you to the wrong guy. To what makes you feel sweet in the moment, you say, ‘Thank you for your chocolate flavored moments.’ But some things rub and squeeze and grind you that you don’t say thank you for, but they alter your being in such a way that it brings wisdom into your experiences. And rarely we are thankful for that.” (https://youtu.be/g9Q14FbHw4A).

Now, you know that I am not prone to fuzzy and warm Kumbaya aphorisms, but this statement is so eloquent and so profound in the context of social media, that it grabbed me by the… well, you-know-whats. To me it seems to me so apt in respect of positions both you and I have taken concerning the nature of engagement on LinkedIn and now on beBee. So here’s my question:

To date, I’ve been impressed by the wide range of topics, quality of writing and seriousness of opinions on beBee. But, with the cadre of writers and commenters growing daily, I have a nagging concern that what is now a refreshingly strong sense of mutual support and camaraderie will eventually evolve into a Petrie dish of Insipidipity.

Do you share my concern, and if so, what do you think we can all do to help keep the publishing platform vibrant and edgy … and unlike LinkedIn.


Insipidipity Is Lurking... Or Is It? That Is the QuestionJIM: I can see where the Mooji quote about rubbing and squeezing and grinding could have tweaked a nerve in you. It did in me also.

On the one hand, I agree with you that we ought to be concerned about the risk of an eventual slide into ‘insipidity’. But at the same time, I’m pretty sure there’s not a hell of a lot we can do about it.

People are who they are. People write about the stuff that’s important to them and if they have any skill at writing they do it in a tone and manner that supports their overall social media brand character.

You can’t make people write edgy stuff it that’s not the way they are built. File trying to do that under “Who Died And Left You Boss?”

Right now there is a lot of positive feeling about beBee, because the people who run the site are very responsive, and work hard to promote good writing.

But, and here comes the old 80/20 differential again, which clearly states that in any mob of bloggers 80% of the content produced will fall into the ‘Insipidity” category in someone’s opinion. And the remaining 20% will genuinely represent the site, its character and the overall nature of its publishing entity.

Do I wish there were more balls-to-the-wall writers like you and I. Sure. Cause I like to read that kind of stuff. The more the merrier for me, and frankly I am finding a few here and there and will probably find more as we all go forward. Like Randy Keho and Brian MacKenzie. And our pal Don Kerr has his moments. I really like these guys. They’re good writers and they tend not to sugar coat.

But at the end of the day, there’s always gonna only be a relative few of us. And maybe that’s as it should be, IMHO.

But I also know that because you brought it up it’s gotta be a concern to you. So why don’t you tell me what you think we can do about it? Especially since my answer was actually kind of insipid.


Insipidipity Is Lurking... Or Is It? That Is the QuestionPHIL: See, that’s what I mean. You just couldn’t resist waving that “IMHO” millennial bull chip in front of me. Just to provoke me. Well, I am not going to bite —well... not more than a little.

Seriously, I understand what you’re saying about there already being some edgy writers here on beBee. I’d add Kevin Pashuk to the list, as I predict he’ll soon hit his stride and develop a major following. Also Gerry Hecht, who has come out of the intellectual closet with some of the wildest, wackiest stuff, but whom I perceive to have some seriously deep, albeit obscure underpinnings.

But don’t misunderstand. When I talk about “edgy”, I am not talking about writers whose main form of expression is a rant. I’m talking about writers who display at least a modest measure of gravitas, for example, Wayne Yoshida, who I predict will, as well, emerge as a very strong voice.

I guess that’s what I’m talking about, namely, strong voice. Of which there are a number we haven’t mentioned here, because there just isn’t time or room to do so.

Admittedly, it may be just personal, but I don’t want to read one, let alone five more tips on nailing a job interview (by someone who’s failed over the past year or more to land a job). I don’t want to read posts about developing leadership skills (written by people who haven’t led even a Boy Scout or Brownie troop, not to mention a company with more than one or two employees). And God, please forgive me... I don’t want to read one more inspirational piece about Great Grandpa’s struggle and triumph with learning to put on his Dependz.

I do want to read the critical (meaning thoughtful) opinions of people with genuine experience in topic areas they write on. Also, from time to time, I like to get a bit of insider information or advice on something, pretty much anything. Just information that I don’t normally run across because it about something outside my normal circle of friends and colleagues.

For me, topics can range from the mundane to the sublime. And I don’t restrict my reading to only earth-shattering, life-changing discussions. I simply want substance, not fluff, about pretty much anything, written by people who know WTF they’re talking about, and aren’t just parroting what others have written (surfing the trend) or just making it all up.

What I don’t want is for the growing stream of Insipidipity on beBee to drown out the good stuff, or make it as difficult and time consuming to find, as it became on LinkedIn. And if you think I am alone in my concern, see Bradley Gilbert’s post, “Quality Over Quantity”.

Theoretically the problem should be significantly ameliorated, if not entirely eliminated by the “hives” concept on beBee. You know — affinity networking.

But truth be told, the hive system is not yet working. At least,  not the way it is supposed to.

Posts on all topics are being shared indiscriminately across all manner of supposedly interest-specific hives. The result is that when you sign up for a specifically-themed hive, because you wanted the type of content it promised, and nothing other than that, you still often get all manner of flotsam in your feed from that hive. Which completely undermines the affinity networking concept.

A prime example is “Tradesmen and Skilled Workers”. I bet that less than 5% of the members there and certainly less than 2% of the posts have anything to do with the “blue collar” sector. Yet, the mission statement for that hive very clearly expresses its intended primary subject matter.

Now, I have to admit that to date I am as guilty as anyone else of contributing to the undermining the system. I have not been paying close enough attention to the traffic in the hives I own and manage. As a result, even the hives I manage are full of off-topic posts. What to do?

I believe the first and most important corrective step to be taken is to establish beBee-endorsed hives. These would be the only hives officially allowed to use the beBee logo. And such endorsement should be conditioned on evidence of active management, and maintenance of the standards for content type and quality delineated in the hive’s mission statement.

So, that's my story... and I'm stickin' to it.  What’s does your Pareto Principle tell you about that, Mr. 80-20?


Insipidipity Is Lurking... Or Is It? That Is the QuestionJIM: We’ve been doing this schtick for a while now, and I honestly have to say, and the segment I just read from you is, not IMHO, LOL or WTF, some of the most inspirational shit you have ever written. Don’t let it go to your head though.

My 80/20 Differential prognostication has not really altered since moving the blogging tent over here into the Land of The Uber Friendly Bees. But a lot of the 80% has to do with the fact that I am simply unable to read a lot of the content here because it’s in Spanish or Portuguese or whatever. I’m sure that will change as time goes by, but I don’t think it will alter the reality.

This social media business is strange. The last post I put up here was partially about how digital marketing has more or less forced everyone to become a writer. But the simple fact is that because a lot of people do not naturally have the same passion for writing as professional writers, their work will be harder to read.

That’s not a knock on people. Everybody is trapped in this bullshit game to some extent. I consider myself lucky that my professional work comes from sources outside the Internet. Like reputation, connections, referrals and the telephone (remember that?).

But I can tell you that there are a lot of people out there who are just plain uncomfortable writing. And if that’s the case then there are going to be an equal, if not greater number of people who are uncomfortable reading their stuff.

I’ve written a lot of posts that talk about the mechanics of blogging and so have you. But what you really can’t teach is the inspiration. For example, why the hell do you and I do this? We do it because we’re both professionals and can do it and make it work. It’s never occurred to us at any time that we could not make something readable out of this exchange.

What we do every day for our clients and for our own edification, and what the writers you mentioned, and probably hundreds more do here is really try and set a standard and keep the content humming at a high level.

But you know and I know that out of all the people hammering out blog posts, I’m being kind when I say that only 20% of that is going to be worth reading.

I know that might sound a little, or maybe even a lot, arrogant. But it’s not. There are writers and there are people who really want to be but either aren’t yet or won’t really ever be. Same as it ever was.

So what happens on BeBee or in the soon to be defunct Lumpy Kingdom or any other blogging site you can name is the same old, same old. You log on and you scroll until something hits you, then you take a chance and start to read it.

And if you’re lucky or if you know and respect the writer, you’ll find what you’re looking for. If not, you just trudge on.

The only difference here on beBee is that there are way fewer pompous asses to deal with, and a much better overall responsiveness on the part of management.

But let’s not kid ourselves. For every John Grisham or Ken Follett or Wilbur Smith or Frederick Forsythe, there are literally thousands of other writers trying like hell to be that good. It’s the nature of the beast.

My advice to those people is to keep writing until you either master the craft or realize that it’s not your bag. Either way, you will have at least given it your best shot, and these days that’s really all you can do. Oh yeah, and figure out how to use apostrophes.


Insipidipity Is Lurking... Or Is It? That Is the QuestionPHIL: I sincerely appreciate the kind words ─ which are in marked contrast to what you wrote to me when our paths first crossed on LinkedIn. But that was then, and... this is now. So, let's take this one on home.

I have two points I’d make about what you’ve just said.  (Yea, your thinking, “Man, only two?") They are:


1) I agree with you about most people trying, but rarely becoming polished writers, with their own distinctive style and voice. However, that’s not, I think, what makes or breaks a digital publishing platform. I personally prefer meaty ideas expressed roughly or poorly, to insipid nothingness, however eloquently written.

So, for me at least, it’s not about form, but rather all about the content. Whether the content has substance or not. And whether it is imbued with knowledge, understanding, and insight. Or even just strong opinion. For however soothing Muzak may be when playing in the background, it is still shallow and bland ─ with a strong mid-range only, and all the highs and lows muted to virtual non-existence. (Milos Djukic, who a couple of years ago on LinkedIn named me “Mr. No-Muzak”, will love that line, don’t you think?)  Anyway…

2) You say, “… log on and … scroll until something hits you, then … take a chance and start to read it.” But as the platform grows and volume of posts increases, that becomes harder and harder ─ or at least much more time-consuming ─ to do. If you remain at all discerning. For the continually ongoing flood of material into the general feed starts to push stuff that you might have been interested in down so fast and so far out of easy reach, that 80% of the time you’ll miss the 20% that you might have an interest in seeing.

I reiterate that on beBee, the hives system and affinity networking is supposed to solve that problem. But because the mission statements of various hives are not being implemented, the appropriate filtering is not taking place.

As I understand the concept, affinity networking has two sides to its coin. Heads, it’s supposed to enable you to see and read what you want to see and read from the people you choose to follow, and with whom you choose to network. But don’t forget tails, for it’s also supposed to enable you to not see what you don’t want cluttering your feed and preventing you from finding easily in  that feed what you do want to see and read.

Right now, I can pretty much assure seeing some of the content I want to see, by following the author involved, and by joining a hive or a number of hives that feature content on topics of interest to me. And I can block or "silence" content from people who habitually post stuff I don’t want to see or read.  What I cannot do is filter out content that I don’t want to see, but which comes to me via a hive that I belong to because it also features content I do want to see.

This results from a failure of owners and managers of the various hives to actively manage those hives in accord with their respective mission statements.

Just as important, until this situation is corrected by assuring appropriate, serious and active management for hives, or at least a beBee badge of endorsement for those hives which are properly managed, affinity networking will remain an unfulfilled promise. And after more than five years on LinkedIn, I’ve frankly had my fill of unfulfilled promises

─ Phil Friedman


Afterword: JimMurray can, and always will speak for himself.  And I would greatly appreciate your directing any hate mail to him.

For the record, and before you start writing comments accusing me of pissing on the beBee parade,  I understand completely that beBee is a work in progress, and that it takes time to find and work out all the conceptual and system bugs in anything as complex as a social media platform.

However, while I have from early on supported and continue to support Javier Rica, Juan Imaz, and now Matt Sweetwood and John White, and the rest of the beBee crew in their efforts to build beBee, I would not be a true friend to them or to beBee, if I did not speak out about what I consider to be the single most important problem to solve, earlier rather than later, in the platform’s development. ─ PLF


Author's notes:  If you'd like to receive notifications of my writings on a regular basis, click the [FOLLOW] button on my beBee archive page. As a writer-friend of mine says, you can always change your mind later.

Feel free to "like" and "share" this post and my other LinkedIn articles — whether on LinkedIn, Twitter, Facebook, or Google+, provided only that you credit me (and in the case of "He Said He Said", Jim as well) properly as the author(s), and include a live link to the original post.


About me, Phil Friedman: With 30 some years background in the marine industry, I've worn numerous hats — as a yacht designer, boat builder, marine operations and business manager, marine industry consultant, marine marketing and communications specialist, yachting magazine writer and editor, yacht surveyor, and marine industry educator. I am also trained and experienced in interest-based negotiation and mediation. In a previous life, I taught logic and philosophy at university.


Insipidipity Is Lurking... Or Is It? That Is the QuestionThe (optional-to-read) pitch: As a professional writer, editor, university educator, and speaker, with more than 1,000 print and digital publications, I've recently launched an online program for enhancing your expository writing: learn2engage — With Confidence. My mission is to help writers and would-be writers improve the clarity of their thought, master the logic of discussion, and strengthen their ability to deal with disagreement.


To schedule an appointment for a free 1/2-hour consult email: info@learn2engage.org.


Insipidipity Is Lurking... Or Is It? That Is the Question


Insipidipity Is Lurking... Or Is It? That Is the Question



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Comments

#136
#137 Yep, this was a good one and I felt the need to give it another go around!

Phil Friedman

2 years ago #84

Yes, Jim Murray, this was a pretty good one, I think. Cheers!

Jim Murray

2 years ago #83

Thanks for the re-post Franci\ud83d\udc1dEugenia Hoffman, beBee Brand Ambassador

Phil Friedman

4 years ago #82

#133
Antoinette, concerning flags, in LinkedIn groups, members could set a flag in a post that required the group administrator to review the post and decide whether or not to keep it or toss it. Flagging a post in a hive is insufficient. As Javier beBee says often, the nature of your feed is largely determined by the hives to which you belong. If I sign up for the Cars hive, but not the Food hive, I want to see things about cars, not food. And having Food posts run into my feed because they are mis-posted in the Cars hive is not helped any simply by having a flag attached to those food posts, because those flagged food posts will still push down and out of sight in my feed many of the posts that I really would like to see. I personally don't want to spend hours scrolling through my feed past hundreds of posts I don't want to see, in order to find those I do. And the only way to avoid that is to enforce the topic-specificity of hives -- for that is the only way Affinity Networking can really work. Thanks for reading and commenting.

Phil Friedman

4 years ago #81

#132
Antionette, as a hive owner and administrator, and as an LI group owner and administrator, I would not regret having a member leave the hive, if that member consistently posted contrary to the posting guideline (which all my hives and groups have stated specifically). Sorry, if that does not sound sufficiently friendly, but I feel a responsibility to the other members of the hive or group not to allow them to be continually spammed with posts of a kind they never signed up to receive. To my mind, it's that simple. As to differing perceptions, there are always some posts that are difficult to classify, but the vast majority are easily distinguished. For example, I own and administer the Business Hub hive. If someone posts a piece on the absolute truth of scripture, that post is clearly not appropriate in the Business Hub hive. Now, a post on how to generate huge profits in Evangelical broadcasting might be. As to Insipidipity, I agree with you. In fact, the term I coined back several years ago on LinkedIn, and which I've used ever since is "Insipidipity". For some unfathomable reason, Jim insists on using "Insipity" or "insipidity", so you will have to take that up with him. Thank you for reading and commenting. Cheers!

Phil Friedman

4 years ago #80

#130
Robert, if you mean by the metaphor that the "yard" is fenced and has a "gatekeeper", then I guess there might be less Insipidipity in the yard than in the field. But that depends almost entirely on who the gatekeeper is. And, in any event, the low quality overall of what is self-published on social media, is to my mind more the result of a prevalent ethos of publish (anything) or perish from sight. Cheers!

Robert Cormack

4 years ago #79

Eventually, @Phil Friedman and @Jim Murray, we'll have to accept "insipid" as part and parcel of "the field." As soon as you establish the field for discussion, it is open ground. The day you decide it's "closed ground" it isn't a field anymore, it's a yard. You have to decide when beeBee becomes a yard.

Phil Friedman

4 years ago #78

Gerald Hecht, I have a photo of the announcement when you were made an Ambassador. Not only that, you remain my favorite Ambassador, notwithstanding your propensity to make people uncomfortable with your ability to peer through bullshit. Hang tough, buddy. Otherwise, they win. Cheers!

Phil Friedman

4 years ago #77

Gerald Hecht, I have a photo of the announcement when you were made an Ambassador. Not only that, you remain my favorite Ambassador, notwithstanding your propensity to make people uncomfortable with you ability to peer through bullshit. Hang tough, buddy. Otherwise they win. Cheers!

Phil Friedman

4 years ago #76

#115
mark, Jim Murray and I do enjoy a degree of freedom in writing and publishing that perhaps you and others don't. Mostly because we are self-employed and shielded by the personas of curmudgeons. Which is why we feel the need (mission?) to do so... And will continue to do so for as long as people like you deem it worthwhile. Thank you for reading and commenting. And for your support. My best to you and yours for the Christmas holiday and the New Year. Cheers!

Phil Friedman

4 years ago #75

#113
#112 - the elves dance, and the witches brew, with spices from a Friedman stew -- a proprietary antipathy to Insipidipity. Cheers!

Ian Weinberg

4 years ago #74

#112
A great outpouring of non-insipid happy, homely stew Gerald Hecht But it is in the mining for the gems (20%/80%) that makes them so much more precious. Keep that right hemisphere bubbling (but don't forget to brush your teeth!). Hope you have a gratifying and sustaining vac and that 2017 purrs for you as in the cat that got the milk.

Milos Djukic

4 years ago #73

#109
"People with outstanding qualities were never adored by the majority. However, there are exceptions and that's what is worth my friends. Those who raise the standards are also blessed, even more..." - from "Leadership and Successful Human Conversations", LI long-form post, published on March 1, 2015 and featured in Leadership & Management However, LI corporations do not read this, they only read "Influencers". Best, Milos

Phil Friedman

4 years ago #72

#108
Thank you, Milos, for reading and commenting. The path is not easy, but that is as it should be. It is also, I note, far from solitary. Which again is how it should be. And those who trod upon it need to reach out in solidarity and support to others who struggle upon it, as you have reminded me from time to time. My best to you for a happy Christmas and a healthy, prosperous New Year. Cheers!

Milos Djukic

4 years ago #71

Mr. No-Muzak aka Phil Friedman, rides again :) The pathway to the real influence. Respectfully, Fractal bird

Phil Friedman

4 years ago #70

#99
Gerald, a Happy Channukah to you too, and best wishes for a healthy, happy, and prosperous New Year. Perhaps in 2017, we will discover the antidote to Bull Chip Fungus, which threatens these days to reach endemic levels. Cheers!

Phil Friedman

4 years ago #69

A fresh comment from one of my followers on LinkedIn who came to beBee on my recommendation leads me to re-share this older post by Jim Murray's comment. Cheers for the holidays and the New Year!

Phil Friedman

4 years ago #68

#92
Todd, thank you for the very kind words. I know that you followed my writing on LinkedIn and that you, like a significant number of others, came to beBee as a result of my recommendation. And I am gratified that you've found that recommendation to have been of value. I hope that beBee ownership and management figures such as Javier \ud83d\udc1d beBee, @Matt Sweetwood, will take notice of your very perspicuous remarks concerning organic growth. As to your feed being overloaded with material that you don't want to see, my recommendation is to use the "Mute User" function, which should eliminate that material from being pushed into your face multiple times per day or visit. Cheers and my best wishes to you for a happy holiday season and a healthy and prosperous New Year.

Phil Friedman

5 years ago #67

#90
My pleasure to do so, Depand. Thank you for reading and taking the time to comment. Cheers!

Phil Friedman

5 years ago #66

#84
Yes, Wayne Yoshida. You are correct. Take a look at: https://www.bebee.com/producer/@friedman-phil/affinity-networking-is-on-the-line If you haven't already. Cheers and thank you for joining the conversation.

Phil Friedman

5 years ago #65

#84
Yes, Wayne Yoshida, and I've started doing just that -- to the consternation of a few bees. http://tinyurl.com/jnjdh9v

Wayne Yoshida

5 years ago #64

#83
Did you mention lightning? Here's a project for you . . . Lightning detector. . .

Wayne Yoshida

5 years ago #63

#82
This sounds like a whole new topic to explore, Phil Friedman

Phil Friedman

5 years ago #62

I had a dream last night. In my dream, I woke up in the morning and, while getting my coffee and breakfast ready, I turned on the TV channel I listen to for national and international news. The newscaster started coming through as usual, but after about a minute, the stream suddenly changed to a reality show about kidney stones. Thinking that the cable company might be having some sort of technical difficulties, I switched to a different news channel. But instead of news, it was running old episodes of America's Got Talent. So I went to the on-screen guide and started flipping channels looking for news, but every time I found a listing for news, that channel was broadcasting something else, like a golf tournament or a game show or home improvement spot. And I thought, where the hell is the news I'm trying to get? So, I called the cable company Customer Service Department, which informed me that a decision had been made to freely mix up the content on the various listed channels because it was too restrictive and anti-democratic to limit a news channel to news, and after all, why shouldn't a reality show about hemorrhoids have an opportunity to be broadcast on CNN or MSNBC channels. And why do I care, anyway? And BTW, who appointed me the Channel Police? So I shut off the TV, and sat down to have my breakfast, while reading a book to calm down. I picked up a copy of a Robert B. Parker Spenser book and opened it, while taking a long gulp of coffee from my mug. And prompt spit the coffee out. Inside the book's cover, which clearly told of a Parker Spenser-series novel, were pages containing the Gideon Bible. Then I woke up -- this time for real, I think -- in a cold sweat, glad that the intellectual chaos to which I appeared doomed was not real. At least, I think it wasn't. But then I haven't yet turned on the TV or opened a book today.

Lisa Gallagher

5 years ago #61

#56
Jim Murray IN a Teddy, ha ha... ok, the visual, too funny!

Phil Friedman

5 years ago #60

#77
Yes, I am familiar with the children's story "Babe, the Blue Oxymoron". Cheers!

Phil Friedman

5 years ago #59

#75
I bee-lieve (see, I just can't stop; its like potato chips) you are 100% correct. With institutionalized topic chaos across all hives, true affinity networking cannot be achieved. For part of affinity networking in not only being able to connect with those you want to connect with, but being able to filter out that and those with whom you don't want to be connected. There is, of course, some danger -- a perception of which is probably lurking in the backs of some people's minds. Namely, that if people can filter out your work, you will eventually be lft entirely out in the cold. Well, we all run that risk. I am not exactly Mr. Personality, and so share that risk. Cheers!

Phil Friedman

5 years ago #58

#72
Thank you Charles David Upchurch, for reading and commenting. Pleased we could be of service in helping you think of what your next buzz will be. Please feel free to send your thanks to Jim Murray, and something more substantial to me. Wait, I'll just have a beer, and send you the tab. Cheers!

Phil Friedman

5 years ago #57

#70
Yes, Wayne Yoshida, I see it very much like the too;ls that owners, managers, and moderators had in LI groups when I first initiated the "Port Royal Group for Yacht Builders, Buyers & Owners", back before there was a long-post publishing platform, and when most meaningful discussions took place in the groups. It was obviously also well before LI decided to destroy groups by effectively eliminating moderation, except as some form of closing the barn door after.the horse got out. And that is a lesson that should be kept in mind. When LI decided to undercut and destroy groups, in defense of its Influencer marketing strategy, the first thing it did was eliminate the always optional ability of group owners and managers to actually manage their groups. Cheers!

Wayne Yoshida

5 years ago #56

#47
#46 -- The Hive Mission Statement is the key to this. And the mechanism to moderate/administer/restrict/reject/delete non-related buzzes in the hive. Sort of like getting rid of the hornet that decides to visit a bee hive. You don't belong here, but you can go someplace else. Maybe.

Wayne Yoshida

5 years ago #55

#22
Thanks for the clarification, Phil Friedman. So we can call this "moderation" and "administration." Do you see the function as a button a hive admin or member could just boink to delete? And a message should be sent to the buzz maker with some message so it will be a learning / warning thing. There should be some allowance for new Bees since they may not know how or what to post where. The beBee in English is extremely broad, but maybe this served its function when new. Now it's time to create specific hives so we can have better buzz sorting.

Phil Friedman

5 years ago #54

#68
Don Kerr, brilliantly accommodates everyone. Cheers!

don kerr

5 years ago #53

#32
I hear you Phil Friedman and, as always, appreciate your sage advice. I maintain that erring on the side of inclusion is favourable. Maybe that's just the '60s upbringing or my issues with authority. If Hive admins take the accountability to maintain the sanctity of the mission then fine and if there remain hives where chaos and disruption are allowed then I'm fine with that.

Phil Friedman

5 years ago #52

#64
Gerald Hecht - I'd rather have a misspelled word... Which context oft makes clear... Than have the corrector take a guess... And change my meaning dear. :-)

Phil Friedman

5 years ago #51

Damnable, not flammable.

Phil Friedman

5 years ago #50

Mon ami, not mom ami .. or Bon Ami for that matter. Be gone, flammable autocorrector!!

Phil Friedman

5 years ago #49

@John Marrett - PT II - As to use if the beBee logo, I see your point. My concern is that use of the logo not imply "official sanction" where it does not exist. . Thinking about it though, maybee (God, it's almost impossible to stop) just a simple disclaimer in the hive's description would take care of the issue. Thanks again for some pointed comments. And cheers, mom ami.

Phil Friedman

5 years ago #48

#55
@John Marrett - thank you for reading and for joining the conversation. We are I think agreed in the main, and I understand your frustration with the Tradesmen hive. @Ken Boddie recently share a great blue collar video there about using a retractable tape measure. And I once shared a piece of mine on building ultralight marine cabinetry. But the vast majority of postings are off topic and by people who don't know a jack plane from jack shit, but whose postings (mine included) completely overwhelm and bury any on-topic pieces that might actually be there. Cont pt II

Phil Friedman

5 years ago #47

#54
Well, Lisa, that is good to know. I assure you that neither I, nor Jim Murray is seeking to force you to change that policy , or your ability to run you hive as you see fit. I personally love the pooh bear image and have been encouraging Jim to adopt something similar for his profile, since he is such a teddy bear. Unfortunately, although he agreed to consider posing for a profile shot in a teddy, when it came to Pooh, he reverted to the words he wrote when we first crossed paths on line. :-) Cheers!

Lisa Gallagher

5 years ago #46

#50
phil, I was referring to my hive. Hate, threats porno. Usually unacceptable on any social media platform. My views, likes of topics however, are pretty liberal and open.

Phil Friedman

5 years ago #45

David Grinberg - pt III - 4) You and I agree on this, but I don't see how you believe it will just happen by itself, unless beBee enforces a requirement for active management of hives. And if it does, isn't that more interferring and restrictive than simply enabling ME to operate a topic-restrictive hive, while you operate a completely topic-open hive? And what does active management mean, if the idea is to allow anyone to post anything to any and every hive? Nothing, I think. 5) I am not suggesting bashing bee hives to see what happens. I am suggesting that the reality of allowing hives to be voluntarily and optionally topic-restricted by their creators and owners under a required mission statement, is a prerequisite for creating true affinity networking. Cheers!

Phil Friedman

5 years ago #44

David Grinberg - pt II - ...3) Your point about "cross pollination" prevented by enabling some hives to be voluntarily and optionally topic-restricted by their owners does not track for me at all. Because it undermines the ability of a member to tailor his or her feed as promised by Javier Cámara Rica and Juan Imaz, in earlier discussions of how beBee was going to work. And it does so by opening a back door to the indiscriminate posting to, for example, MY feed, of posts that I do not want cluttering up MY feed so that I cannot easily see and read what I DO want to see and read. Contrary to your assertion, it was the opening up of the LI long post platform to every member, spammers and meme-ists and so on, that so cluttered up the feed it was virtually impossible for good independent content to be seen before it was pushed down so far out of sight as never to be heard of again. As I've said, optionally topic-restricted hives can exist side by side with fully topic-open hives in harmony, and beBee can #LETTHEAUDIENCEDECIDE, as beBee has always said it intended to do. ... cont pt III

Phil Friedman

5 years ago #43

#48
@David Grinberg - Thank you for reading and for taking the time to join the conversation. Let me answer your points. 1) You and I agree completely on the value of constructive criticism. 2) I am not suggesting that beBee endorse specific hives. I am suggesting that it is a mistake to allow just anyone with a hive to represent it as an endorsed hive by using the beBee logo, and further suggesting that such not be allowed unless the hive maintains active management. The problem on LI with groups was that so many of them were set up and then allowed to run without any management, while people waited weeks, if not months to be approved for membership or to have posts approved to be posted. Moreover, I submit that there is nothing restrictive about enabling hives to be run in accord with their respective mission statements, for if you want to have a hive that is completely open to all topics that would remain your prerogative. BTW, I do not understand fully your concern about differential endorsement creating a hierarchy, since I believe you have been endorsed by beBee officially as a "brand ambassador", a designation with which I fully concur and support in your case. ... cont. pt.II

Phil Friedman

5 years ago #42

#49
Lisa, if I understand you, you understand that what I suggest -- which is entirely in line with the concept of hives and affinity networking, as originally explained by Javier Cámara Rica -- does not interfere with, or tell you how to run your hive. But that you want to prevent me from running my hive the in the way I see fit. ("I don't want to restrict posts, that is, unless, a post is not fit for social media, period.") because you want it to be a general policy that no hive should restrict posts according to topic. Or do I misunderstand you?

Lisa Gallagher

5 years ago #41

#47
Simply put @phil friedman, no. How would you restrict though? Delete posts? I don't want to restrict posts, that is, unless, a post is not fit for social media, period. To expand my meaning on 'not being fit for social media,' would pertain to threats, hateful posts, pornography.

David B. Grinberg

5 years ago #40

Thanks for another thought-provoking exchange Phil Friedman. A few thoughts: 1) Constructive criticism is always helpful and healthy for potential improvement. 2) Having beBee endorse specific hives strikes me as going against the grain of free, open and unrestricted engagement, a main reason why so many of us have fled LI to share buzz here instead. 3) Having beBee endorse specific hives means management of the platform regulating hives in effect. This is a slippery slope as has been shown with all the restrictions on LI groups and subsequent frustrations about it voiced loudly by many folk who fled LI for cross-channel pollination here. 4) Phil, I think the most effective route is to follow the wise advice you proffer: "This results from a failure of owners and managers of the various hives to actively manage those hives in accord with their respective mission statements." Boom -- there it is! Don't commit to managing a hive if unable to manage it efficiently and effectively. 5) Let's not forget what happens when one plays "Piñata" with bee hives, Phil. Thank you for your kind consideration of these points, gents. cc: Javier C\u00e1mara Rica

Phil Friedman

5 years ago #39

#46
My question, @Lisa Gallagher, is simply do you think that if I restrict my Port Royal Group for Yacht Builders, Buyers & Owners to marine industry related posts, in accord with the hive's mission statement, that it in any way affects your ability to run your hive Stories in English, as you see fit?

Lisa Gallagher

5 years ago #38

#43
I'm not sure I fully understand your question @phil friedman but I will try to answer to the best of my ability. I think hives will have buzzes that probably don't belong there because beBee is growing so fast and many people are still in the learning phase. I think we may see a change in running our hives by September when many more changes are implemented by be team beBee. I have been very happy with the buzzes posted to my hive so far. I have to say, I probably post more buzzes that don't appear to be stories but I do that for selfish reasons too. Sometimes I don't have time to read fully or comment, so I'm able to find a buzz easily if I post it to my hive. I chose the word 'stories' intentionally because Stories can be fictional, in video format, songs, news stories etc... I can see why others who have very specific rules for their hives would have a differing view and justifiably so. Again, I think that the hive Admin will have much more control over their hive in the next few months to come. One more thing came to mind- One thing I have a hard time with is remembering each hives requirements (hence posting something to a hive that wasn't the proper hive to do so). Maybe at some point we will see a small blurp of the hive we about to post to before we do post? That would be helpful to me.

Phil Friedman

5 years ago #37

Thank you, John White, MBA. for leadership in this and all matters that bee important. No pressure, just saying. (And a little wacky this time of night.) Cheers!

Phil Friedman

5 years ago #36

Thank you, Lisa Gallagher, for sharing this post in your hive. Cheers!

Phil Friedman

5 years ago #35

#42
@Lisa Gallagher - I agree with you that Don Kerr's expression of camaraderie for many of his fellow writers on beBee is powerful, and admirable. But with all due respect, why do you think that what I am suggesting about fully implementing the concept of hives, as originally outlined by Javier C\u00e1mara Rica, when Jim and I first interviewed him in "HSHS" on LinkedIn several months ago, in any way limits your ability to run your hive in any way you see fit, or to accept as broad a variety and range of posts as you may deem advantageous? I am asking because I am concerned that I may have fallen short of making myself understood clearly on the subject.

Lisa Gallagher

5 years ago #34

#26
What a powerful comment Don Kerr, he has posted many interesting buzzes to this hive and I may have missed them if he didn't.

Phil Friedman

5 years ago #33

#38
@ Jim Murray because he often writes posts pointing out the good posts of other writers. To my mind, it's all gain, and no pain. Thank you for reading and taking the time to join the discussion. What's great about this is that we can have the conversation, openly and without acrimony. Cheers!

Phil Friedman

5 years ago #32

#34
See, Kevin Pashuk was the essence of the Affinity Networking concept -- which enable one to fine-tune ones general feed by choosing of which hives to be a member. I felt the system as outlined originally was brilliant, and still is. I just think beBee is not there yet, and needs to get there as soon as possible, before the growing river of posts overwhelms us all. thanks for reading and commenting. Cheers!

don kerr

5 years ago #31

#35
it is a genuine term of endearment Kevin Pashuk

Kevin Pashuk

5 years ago #30

#26
A little off centre Don Kerr? I don't know whether to take that as a complement or to join the person on LinkedIn and tell you where to go. But since I'm feeling so very Canadian today (we have our relatives from Missouri visiting) I'll just say sorry and leave it at that.

Kevin Pashuk

5 years ago #29

Wow, what a topic to weigh in on Sunday night after a full weekend of family reunions and moving a soon to be married son to their first apartment. There's so much to say on this but no time. Firstly... Thanks Phil Friedman for the kind words in the post. beBee has certainly stirred the muse (is that even a term?) and producing content has come much easier on this platform for the first time in a long time. To get back on topic... I find I spend more time on the general feed rather than going hive to hive. When I do go into a specific hive, I feel that I have a reasonable explanation that every post is somehow related to that hive. I look forward to the tools to allow this to happen if I'm a group moderator. I know that in the Flickr groups I belong to, there is an almost ruthless monitoring of the content... and it's not a bad thing.

Phil Friedman

5 years ago #28

Don Kerr - pt II - So giving hive owners and managers the tool to voluntarily and optionally filter the content in their hives is all gain and no pain, and fully in accord with what Javier Cámara Rica led us to understand would be the case, when Jim Murray and I first interviewed him in "He Said He Said" on LinkedIn several months ago. Thank you for reading and joining the conversation. This is to my mind a critical issue, because as I see it, it involves the core issue of what exactly affinity networking is, and what essentially distinguishes beBee from other larger, more established social media platforms. Cheers!

Phil Friedman

5 years ago #27

#26
Don Kerr and I first interviewed him in He Said He Said. This is why. Giving hive owners and managers the tools to filter the posts in their hives in accord with their mission statements does not preclude the existence of more general hives, such as "beBee in English" and "English", my understanding is that pretty much any topic is fair game as long as the post is written in English. So if you have the time, and are so inclined, you could join numerous such hives, through which you would receive a solid stream of posts by writers all over the map topic-wise. And you would not, nor would you have missed finding @Dean Owen (whose work BTW I shared early on) or anyone else on your list, had the hive system been working fully at the time. On the other hand, if I felt that, say, beBee in English was clogging my feed with things I didn't want to see, I could leave the hive, and instead just visit it periodically, when I had the time and inclination to graze for different and offbeat stuff that I might not otherwise run across. And if you felt that not getting off topic posts through my "Port Royal Group for Yacht Builders, Buyers & Owners" which I restrict to industry-related posts, you could create your own hive, the "Kerr's Any Topic Accepted" hive, through which every post posted could be streamed. (That is not a facetious remark.) ,,,cont. pt II

Milos Djukic

5 years ago #26

#30
You are very welcome Javier C\u00e1mara Rica :)

Javier 🐝 CR

5 years ago #25

#28
thanks Milos Djukic :)

Milos Djukic

5 years ago #24

Javier C\u00e1mara Rica :)

Milos Djukic

5 years ago #23

#22
Phil Friedman. Before some time, I have pointed out the initial success of LI group concept. LI groups were once a truly excellent platform for different professionals. Relevancy is imperative here too. For this reason, the chances for an overall success of professional hives without the section for discussion (post without pictures), featured section, full stats, full manage, invitation option, send of an announcement option, and opportunities for moderation were pretty much questionable.

Javier 🐝 CR

5 years ago #22

#26
welcome to beBee . Welcome to the real freedom of social media ;)

don kerr

5 years ago #21

Oy! Wouldn't you know it. Anyway, to summarize: I embrace the occasional irrelevance and insipidity. Surely it is the accountability of a Hive administrator to sort the wheat from the chaff. I would rather stumble upon the little bit of flotsam and jetsam that miss the opportunity to be exposed to thinking from people with whom I have 'accidentally' stumbled upon. Too tight control would mean I wouldn't have been exposed to Dean Owen, although admittedly a little off center, always engages with authenticity, transparency and wit. Bring on the chaos. I am loving it.

don kerr

5 years ago #20

WTF? I have attempted to post a comment on this three times today and every time the post just vaporizes. Let me try this one more time and if this little one works I will attempt my longer response later.

Phil Friedman

5 years ago #19

#19
Graham Edwards - Welcome aboard. And thank you for the shout out on your post: http://tinyurl.com/gthggyk

Phil Friedman

5 years ago #18

For the record, everyone... we the owner and the managers of a hive SHOULD be able to block or delete posts to the hive that are topically inappropriate. Wayne Yoshida, that is not censorship. It is what every editor of every special-interest publication does. Nor, is It a decision based on a subjective judgement of "quality". It is not censorship because the author or sharer of the post being filtered out of a hive is free to post it elsewhere, or share it with his or her followers, or start his or her own hive where they can allow that post and any others, or all others to be posted. As the owner of openly industry-specific hive, The Port Royal Group for Yacht Builders, Buyers & Owners, a recreation of a group I started more than five years ago on LinkedIn, I believe that I should be able to assure that the members of my hive do not receive all manner of non-industry-related posts in their respective feeds as a result of belonging to my hive. That is not censorship, and while it is a judgment call, it is not simply in "mind of the beholder". I may not be able to tell a Mallard from a Muscovy, but I can certainly tell a horse from a duck. And if you sign up to see things about ducks, I don't think you should have your feed over-run by posts about horses. I am certain that Javier C\u00e1mara Rica, and the rest of the beBee crew will do the right thing -- with a little help from their friends. Thank you for reading, and for joining the conversation.

Phil Friedman

5 years ago #17

#14
Alan Geller? Seriously, topicality in hives is everything, or affinity networking is nothing.

Phil Friedman

5 years ago #16

@Joel Anderson - I agree. Except that there affinity networking has a second side to the coin, that of filtering out what you don't want clogging you notifications feed. And that function on beBee is being undermined by the owners and managers of hives not filtering out posts that do not fit the hive's statement of mission and it's parameters for topicality. That is my main point. Thanks for reading and joining the conversation.

Graham🐝 Edwards

5 years ago #15

I can't wait for Instalment 18 - Hats off to you and Jim Murray. These are the types of discussions that engage, involve and lead to great things.

Phil Friedman

5 years ago #14

#9
Thank you @Wayne Yoshida (whom I don't seem able to tag), for reading and commenting. I agree wholeheartedly with what you say here to Javier C\u00e1mara Rica. Making sure that the tools are available for each member of beBee to tailor his or her feed, and to assure that we don't leave the back door open because hives are not being run according to their respective mission statements, will surely establish beBee as the world's premier digital self-publishing platform. I, for one, am looking forward to that happening. Cheers!

Phil Friedman

5 years ago #13

#8
Alan Geller - If I understand the quote from Krishna, then we do well to be aware of the problem, for that in itself is doing something about it. At least by affecting our own behavior. I think. Certainly you do your part in avoiding Insipidipity, Alan, with your great musical montages. And for introducing me to Mooji. Thanks for reading and commenting. Cheers!

Joel Anderson

5 years ago #12

Thanks Phil, I guess in some ways that that gets to the definition of affinity and the interesting perspective of an affinity network, where we can affinitize to our hearts content. In large measure and in the current context however, that is precipitated by a conscious effort to join, affiliate (i.e. link to an affinity—hive etc….) or connect based on a personal action. If, in reading or writing, once elicits a Websters feeling “of closeness and understanding that someone has for another person because of their similar qualities, ideas, or interests” then you resonate, connect and follow based on an affinity for subject, group, or individual. The challenge with social media is that in the current state of operations, self-forming entities are based on antiquated approaches that have not kept pace with technology. As a result, If insipidity prevails it may just be a natural and logical progression of it is what it is. Back into obscurity and mowing the yard before it turns into the consistent 100's this coming week and weekend. All the best.

Phil Friedman

5 years ago #11

#6
@Joel Anderson - Thank you for reading and commenting in detail. I believe that you are correct, in the main, which is why it is so important to be able to personally tailor one's feed. My main point is that there is a back door into MY feed that is being left open by hives that are not operating according to their respective mission statements, and managers have to be given the tools to board up that door. Cheers!

Phil Friedman

5 years ago #10

#4
Jim Murray on LinkedIn, which brought major attention to the developing platform. Friends don't let friends drive drunk. And friends don't let friends off easy, by not telling them about issues that need to be dealt with. Cheers!

Wayne Yoshida

5 years ago #9

Phil Friedman, this is a light from an oncoming train - we see it coming, and there is hope, but it could be bad. We are dealing with the same issue as the "publishing industry" had in - what - the 1980s -- when PCs (Macs?) and PageMaker came out. Everyone became an "expert writer and publisher." Nevermind the traditional rules about formatting, typography and style. And the content - the writing as well. Now everyone has the power to post anything in the www and establish a following. But I am not sure how we will get to the core of this issue. We cannot prevent people from producing drivel or posting in incorrect Hives. But the one thing we have to be careful of is -- censorship. This is implied when any sort of "moderation" is mentioned. Or maybe I am not understanding how one would moderate posts from people. In the end, it will be up to us - as readers and as writers - to make this platform work. No matter what algorithm, sort or filter function is created, only a good human will be able to truly filter out the garbage from the gold. But - just like art is in the eye of the beholder -- so is what is considered good, useful and interesting vs. poor, useless and boring.

Phil Friedman

5 years ago #8

#5
Javier C\u00e1mara Rica - Thank you, as always, for reading and commenting. I personally have every confidence that you and the beBee team will build out the platform in the way you've described. Witness your response and ongoing engagement. Although, again personally, I always believe it helps to keep the spotlight on issues, of which the way hives are, or are not operating is, to my mind, a key one. Cheers!

Wayne Yoshida

5 years ago #7

#5
Javier C\u00e1mara Rica and team - this will be a challenge - but I am glad you are watching these thoughts because - as beBee grows, this noise level will grow and may get out of control. The filtering process will be difficult to create - but I think your team of experts - and the "Hive" concept at the very beginning - will help. It is not a "patchwork" of amends to a platform that was intended as something else, like LinkedIn was when it was created.

Joel Anderson

5 years ago #6

I think part of the insipidity challenge with any social media venue and true interaction, dialogue and conversation is the fact that regardless of which guru, spiritual leader, sage expert in any domain, professional writer or just a hobbyist poet or author--much of what we see on the social media stage lacks any real quality that ultimately piques the interest of anyone. It is just plain NOISE. Good examples abound with writers of great intention endeavoring to stimulate or challenge through writing. Far too of these examples get lost or hidden through the noise of agenda, veiled anecdote, or superficial triteness. Whether a phenomena of our current acceptance of emotional sensationalism, a nuance of the continued evolution of globalism and the horizontal and vertical shrinking of our world, or the fact that we are just inundated with a myriad of good and bad stimuli—it all fuels insipidity. Depending on one’s attention span, ones work load, the number of distractions competing for time, one is left with a plethora of options to pick and choose from: headers, subject lines or topics that may or may not capture ones attention, true dialogue which provides qualities that are of real interest, and context that truly stimulate and/or challenge folks to think differently, engage constructively, or excursion out of one’s comfort zone. And then, ultimately it is up to the individual to pick and choose any or all that they find of interest.

Javier 🐝 CR

5 years ago #5

#2
Phil Friedman beBee will give you the tools to tailor your feed. It so simple like that. As you know what is relevant for you , probably is not relevant for another. OUR BEES will have the power to choose what they want to see :)

Jim Murray

5 years ago #4

I for one hope this opens up a good discussion and at the very least will underscore the importance of the two way street aspect of affinity. This is very much a quality over quantity environment. As opposed to Linked in which was...well I don't know what it was.

Phil Friedman

5 years ago #3

#2
Dean Owen, if you will take a minute to read it over, you will notice that I did not say anything about most of the types of articles you mention. In fact, I said personally I am interested in all manner of topics, "from the mundane to the sublime." My point is that if I join an automobile racing give, I want to see content about F1 cars and tracks, or closed wheel stock cars or whatever else goes with that, but I don't want a flood of inspirational exhortations filling my feed because someone posted them to the auto racing hive. I think that's pretty reasonable, don't you? Affinity networking means more than simply forming friendships, it means forming groups by common interests and being able to manage one's incoming diet. I don't remember telling anyone what or what not to write or publish. I think I only said I want the tools to manage the content that comes to me, so that I don't have to waded through hundreds of titles and images to find half a dozen that interest me. Thanks for reading and commenting.

Dean Owen

5 years ago #2

OK, since you appreciate frankness let me start the conversation by saying your definition of what is and is not insipid is not a universal definition. You may, or may not find travel writers banal, food writers lacking originality, fashion bloggers irrelevant. You apparently have had your fill of Tips to Succeed posts. I personally have had all I can take of LinkedIn sucks posts. We all have different ideas of what is relevant. As it happens, we are forming affinities with like minded people. Affinity networking is not an unfulfilled promise. It is real, and happening daily right here. And then there are bees like Mamen who manage to dip her finger in every pie and do so with genuine intent. So beBee has given us a certain amount of power to tailor our feeds. The Hives issue you mention Phil is a serious issue that needs addressing early on. It will involve giving the administrators more tools to ensure Hive content is relevant. I am sure these tools are under development so we need to be patient. Ultimately, no platform delivers 100% content that you want to see, but don't you believe that beBee are, and will continue to get it right? I mean, beBee was born from the concept of relevance. It is a mission statement.

Phil Friedman

5 years ago #1

@ Jim Murray. Cheers!

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